BXProject

[Father Ted]

X-Hamster or RedTube mat....

[docchevron132]

avoid red tube. And youporn. Both have been full of viral shite lately. Erm, so I've heard...

[Father Ted]

What about Xhamster?

[Vanny]

hamster for the win!

But not from s***h africa, internet connection is a bit like the restruant service, it will get here when its good and ready and not one second before!

[mat_the_cat]

That's more like it. Bringing Wales kicking and screaming into the 20th Century! Blisteringly quick now.

[Father Ted]

Supposed to be getting 20 Meg at home. Not sure if some of this speed or lack of it is due to the router being N and the computers wifi thingumajig being a G

[Vanny]

Meh, not bad, though paying for 20mb.

Marty, wireless G is 54Mbps so unlikely to be causing the bottle neck. The only time you'll really see a problem is transferring files from computer to computer where you will be limited to 10Mb per second on wireless G and 30Mb per second on N. With wireless N you more than likely find the computer and or router are too slow to give you full bandwidth usage comp to comp.

Personally i'm looking to go Wireless N and full gigabit for device to device transfer (ie from the computer to TV/PlayStation).

[Father Ted]

It all goes over my head Im afraid, but looks like Im getting 72 Mbs. I dont stream to other devices, just iPlayer once a week or so to my laptop

[Vanny]

Marty, thats 72 Mbps not 72Mbs, ie its 72 mega BITS per second not 72 mega BYTES per seconds, ie your getting 1/8th of 72 or 9Megb/s connection to the WIRELESS receiver, even then with ghosting and dropped packets your real speed will be less again.

Its all a bit of a scam really!

[BX Meteor]

So ..... I thought I'd join you lot on here, since I see that Mick (from MK) and others are here too

Internet speeds, I claim bragging rights, I have worked on mobile phone networks since 1995, as a base station planner in 2G (GSM), as a microwave link planner, a 2G(GSM) and 3G(UMTS) KPI optimiser (database counters and equations etc etc), and more.

GPRS is an add-on to GSM (2G)
HSPA (aka HSDPA and HSUPA) is an add-on to UMTS (3G)
DSL (aka ADSL) is a data comms technology for twisted copper pairs, almost always deployed in "star" configuration to houses
Cable is a co-axial technology employing an Ethernet Bus technology
Fibre Optic is similar to Cable, but has a far higher bandwidth
WiFi is also known as IEEE 802.11 and works in the 2.4 GHz "ISM" band.

The screen shot that Father Ted (Marty) has, is the speed in Mbps on the WiFi link between his PC/Laptop and his router. This is not the speed between his router and the internet.

The speed between your router and internet, depends on several factors.

Virgin Media bought out (purchased) NTL and other Cable suppliers. Whilst virgin Media do deploy DSL in some areas where there is no Cable, they mainly use Cable. The main problem with Cable is that it is an Ethernet Bus system, so the more users that there are on a Cable section, the lower the speed you get. You may have a high speed on Cable at the moment, but as they add more and more users onto your Cable section, your speed will go down when they are on-line. This is also true for HSPA and GPRS.

On the other hand, DSL speed is mainly limited by the distance you are from the star hub (usually a telephone exchange), because the bandwidth of twisted copper pair is a much steeper function of distance compared with co-axial cable (and Fibre Optic is fantastic in all respects). However, because twisted copper pairs can run in bundlded sections, they also suffer from cross-talk, so the spectral efficiency of DSL is affected by the distance from hub, and the number of simultaneous users in a bundled section.

In Summary
-DSL ....All home Service Providers who are not Virgin Media will be using DSL, over the BT twisted copper pairs. At the hub, they have DSL modems, so your house is a modem to modem comms link using DSL technology over twisted copper pair. At the hub, the DSL modem converts your DSL into Ethernet, and then the session continues over Ethernet on Fibre Optic into the Internet CLoud.
-Cable ... Virgin Media only.
-3G ... HSPA is affected by the number of simulaneous users. If you are a long distance from a base station, then users closer to the base station will pervent you from getting HSPA, and you may drop down to GPRS. If you live out in a rural area, then it is probable that you don't live near an HSPA basestation, and all you will get is GPRS.
-2G ... GPRS is shit, it's not much better than dial up, though EDGE does offer a big improvement
-WiFi ... is the wireless connection to your router in your house, but your speed into the outside world depends on the above.

If you want me to explain it better, I can, but I would have to make separate posts for each technology. Cheers, Brian

[Philhod]

I'm learnin Swedish personally

[BX Meteor]

yeah sorry I've packed a hell of a lot into there now I look at it. One of the best analogies is speech.

If two people who are sober aged say 30 sit close in a small quiet room, then they can communicate quickly at a low speech level.

If they went to a large hall and sat at each end, then they have to speak louder and more slowly. This is because communication energy disspipates over distance, and audible/inaudible echo will also interfere.

If several more couples come into the hall, then the communication rate of all couples depends on distance between each couple and the "noise" level they each inadvertently produce on one another.

There are several ways around this, here are the 5 most widely used.

1-CSMA (Carrier Sense Multiple Access) - in this system, as soon as one couple communicates, the others wait for a pause, and when there is a pause, another couple grabs the time and the others wait until there is a pause, etc, etc. So the overall communcation rate goes down when more people are trying to talk in the same space. This is an Ethernet Bus system (Virgin Media Cable). WiFi also uses CSMA, but in a house with a few users you won't notice.

2-FDMA (Frequency Divison Multiple Access) - in this system, the couples would split to using narrower frequency bands per couple, and then they can all talk at once, but their rate would still be slower as the energy per word is less. The first generation mobile phones (AMPS/TACS) used FDMA and was too narrow for data transmissions.

3-TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access) - in this system , each couple takes it in turn to talk for a fixed period (say 10 seconds each for human speech). Thus their overall communication rate is still slow. 2G/GSM/GPRS uses this system.

4-CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access) - in this system, each couple uses a different language (German, French, etc, etc) and they all talk at once, and provided the distance between each couple is the same and their speech levels are the same, then this will work. However, if one couple talks louder, or if the distance between a couple is bigger then the others, well hard luck. 3G/UMTS/HSPA uses this system.

5-OFDM (Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing) - this system is a bit like FDMA, but the frequencies used have to be very carefully arranged so that they do not cause interference to one another. In electronics reality, no filter has a sharp characteristic, each characteristic overlaps in space and time, but in OFDM the digital filters and frequencies are extremely precise to limit the overlap in space and time. The amount of OFDM adaptation (frequency choices and bits per hertz) is limited as distance increases, so comms rate will reduce with distance. There is no equivalent in human speech (birds, whales, elephants might be able to do this). DSL and 4G/LTE uses this system.

All of this is summarised in the Shannon-Hartley Theorem from the 1920's. Noise is anything unwanted in the channel between two communication points on a link, this includes other talkers, echo, noise from other sources, etc, etc. Communication rate is affected by noise. And this also applies to writing, whereby writing style can inadvertently produce noise. If you don't understand any of this, a part of it may be down to my writing style. You can't please all of the people all of the time

So the screen shot by Father Ted (Marty) shows he has a very good CSMA WiFi link between laptop and router.

If you are using DSL from router to the outside workd over twisted copper pair. then the rate you get depends on how well the OFDM mush is banging around on those wires. This can also be affected by other users, if it's a lot better in the early hours of the monrning, that's why.

If you are using Cable from router to the outside workd over co-ax, your CSMA rate is affected by other users on the same cable, if it's a lot better in the early hours of the monrning, that's why.

If you are using 3G HSPA to the outside workd, your CDMA quality might depend on other users, if it's a lot better in the early hours of the monrning, that's why.

And finally, if your internet access is shit whatever time of day, if it's 3G you don't have HSPA. if it's DSL or Cable, either the twisted-pair/co-ax is shit, or their modem/multiplexer at the far end is shit.

[Father Ted]

The main problem with Cable is that it is an Ethernet Bus system, so the more users that there are on a Cable section, the lower the speed you get. You may have a high speed on Cable at the moment, but as they add more and more users onto your Cable section, your speed will go down when they are on-line. This is also true for HSPA and GPRS.

That probbaly explains why certain times I just cant stream video at home, and the 3G access up at the caravan varies depending on the time of day (after 6pm, forget it!) Yet up untill about 9am from the wee small hours you get enough speed to be able to stream video from iPlayer.

[BX Meteor]

/\ you've got it

EDIT: also, even though you are using Virgin Media. you might still be DSL. Where there never was Cable in your road, then Virgin Media will not have Cable available, and they will give you DSL instead. They would have said this at the time. If you don't know which you have, look on the pavement outside your house. If you have Cable, there will be a small access point with words like "CATV" or "Diamond" on it, and you will also have a larger plastic box on the side of your house somewhere. If not, then you are DSL, and Virgin Media should not have sold you 20 Mbps over DSL. If you are definitely Cable and you are paying for 20 Mbps and you never get it, then walk up and down the road and check the number of "CATV" points in the road, the number of boxes on the sides of houses, and how far you are from a large green box in your street or the next street (it should have a big access panel in the pavement with "CATV" or "Diamond" etc on it). Then phone them up every day until they send someone round, and tell him that you never get 20 Mbps even in the wee hours, and tell him that Virgin Media must alter their network topology to upgrade your Cable section to cope with the number of users .... if he says they are doing that, ask him when it will be finished

EDIT2: I see that you've got their TV, so you will 100% definitely have a "CATV" access point in the pavement and a plastic box on the side of the house. It's Cable (co-axial) and you have a lot of users sharing the same section of co-ax in the road (CSMA contention). If you're paying for 20 Mbps and never or hardly ever get it, call them and ask them if they know, and if they do know ask them when it will be re-planned. You may get our Indian chums and get nowhere so ask for a man to be sent round.

Anyone on DSL ....if it's shit all the time, keep phoning your ISP and keep complaining ... if it used to be OK, the problem may be too many users on a bundled section of copper pairs, or interference getting into the pairs, or they need to upgrade the multiplexor DSLAM (DSL Access Multiplxer) at the hub (cabinet or exchange room) ....or maybe they have upgraded with newer OFDM and didn't send you a new modem.

[Vanny]

Me thinks this should be copied and pasted to a wiki some where, tis some good shit.

But what happens if you live in Hull?

[mat_the_cat]

Move.

[Vanny]

some say that about finding yourself in coventry! And good lord am i trying to get out of here