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I actually quite like Tranny's..

I don't mind transits

Bah!

Clearly neither of you have driven a proper van! The Transvestite van is a complete load of shit. It's popular for a reason: It's cheap. Compare the price of a 1994 Transit and a 1994 Citroen C25, and the C25 was remarkably more expensive. Why? Because it's a remarkably better van.*

Now of course the C25 isn't understood, as it has a CX engine in it, so rather than maintain one, people just go and buy transits, as they're simple. Unfortunately they are still a cheap shit van, but now 15 years old.

*I may be biased.

All true.
I have neevr driven a C25, although I do REALLY want one, and I'd stuff a 2.5GTi Turbo 2 engine in it.
Because that would be fucking awesome!
I've driven loads of Transists over the years, and whilst they are on the whole fairly gutless, thirsty pieces of rusty shit, there is something I like about them.
Not the bnew FWD ones, they are utter shite.
My fave was a Mk2 with about 3 trillion miles on it. So shgged out it was great.
Free revving as hell since there was no friction left in the engine at all. AFAIK it's still going now.
I did good trade a few years back welding transits, still could now if I could be fucked.

But yes, the C25 is without doubt a better wagon, I just wish I could find one that isn't
A: a motorhome witha Talbot badge
B: fucked

[smiffy]

Many years ago, I did sometimes use a C25E for taking my venture scouts to various events. It was ok, but being an ex hire van, it was fairly well fucked!

[Father Ted]

Hey, you did Ventures too? Mee too! Though we has ex hire Transits, all rusted to fook. We did have quite a nice VW transporter minibus for a few weeks before Malcom Kay (DC fo West Lancs) stuffed it into a wall in Borrowdale - typical scout TPO insurance meant back to the shitters again.

This one was like sswiss cheese, had a 1.6 petrol engine and kept leaping out of gear. Took us all the way to Switzerland one year. Here it is in Carnac- France being used to help make a rope swing....

[mickey taker]

fraid not , there ere a couple of what we called flag wavers ( just drive them around and watch the queues build at the post office )

the only problem was you had to be two up to use it (driver and equipment operator)

You also had to drive passed the target property twice to get a comparative reading .

the operational vans were spottable because they had a sight next to the operators desk in the back.

they worked by driving passed the target property slowly and by pushimg a button as you passed the two perimeters of said property .

You then drive passed again and scanned for a signal between the perimeters .

the machine would then give you a printout telling you

1 ) how far across the width of the property the signal was coming from
2 ) how far from the van the signal was coming from and
3 ) what channel was being viewed at the time of the test

so basically before you even knocked the door you knew if they were watching tv , what channel they were watching and where the tv was in the house within about a foot.
that evidence plus the name of an adult in the house at the time was enough to secure a prosecution

[mickey taker]

oh by the way I was a venture scout as well , had the chiefs scout award and was chairman of our vsu commitee , I was a cub pack helper right up until September of last year

[Madcav]

The only van I'd chose to own long term besides a Transit would be an older Sprinter 2.9 to be honest. At the risk of being flamed, shot, flamed and shot again I could never get on with Transit sized Citroen/Peugeot/Fiat vans as they always seemed to break down and blow engines up.

[mickey taker]

perhaps it had something to do with the way they were being driven eh Billy

[Vanny]

so basically before you even knocked the door you knew if they were watching tv , what channel they were watching and where the tv was in the house within about a foot.

<cough> bollocks</cough>

TV License scum are the scum of the earth and in my experience the most moraless lieing twats that have ever walked the streets. Not to mention, UHF attenuation can be affected by all manner of things. Also IF such equiptment was used it would be invasion of privacy, searching without warrant, and would deffinately fall under the many 'spying' acts. But UHF simply doesn't work like that, i mean great you could detect a signal sump (ie lowered attanuation around an aerial on the roof), but once the signal is in the SCREENED cable, then into the demodulator in the back of the telly you could not detect a) the signal b) what channel was being decoded at that time. The only thing you could pic up is heat signatures of the electron gun. Even the electrons have a stupidly low energy out side of there vacuum so you couldn't detect them. Quite frankly its a hoax that the illegally arranged licensing would like you to believe!

"Hey, i've got this idea, every person with a device capable of going on the internet should pay the government 3 days worth of the wages." I can see that one going down a storm, yet everyone pays the sodding TV license.

[mickey taker]

Now for once you are totally wrong ,

god I worked for them for ten years I think i know how these things work

Who said anything about the detectors picking up uhf frequency , thats your first mistake

[Madcav]

perhaps it had something to do with the way they were being driven eh Billy

That certainly didn't help but to be fair we always used to play with the Transits or get someone else to. We'd had a couple that had been tweaked I was told: iirc it involved something like undoing the 19mm nut on the fuel pump, turning the 13mm nut behind it a smidge then tightening up the 19mm nut and something to do with the accelerator pedal being adjusted.
They certainly went a lot quicker after someone did something like the above and we didn't give a shit as we didn't pay the fuel or repair bils
It's a shame Ivecos are so utterly, utterly wank because fair play most of them don't half fucking go some. Had Cargos right on the end of the speedo quite a few times and had a Daily to 95mph but ran out of bottle and another lad saw just over a ton out of his on a straight.
They're just so abysmally made though it defies belief and the four cylinder Cargos were frighteningly gutless, hopelessly unreliable and fucking dreadful on fuel.

Anyway, back to the Transit:

Local garage have had a look this morning. No go for a while though it tried and ran for a few seconds randomly with easy start.
He then saw the pipe from the lift pump which the RAC fella had noticed was rubbing on the manifold, took it off and the bastard started first crack and ran up fine.
He said the pipe was a loop and had a non-return valve in it and wasn't standard kit. He believed it may have been fitted to prevent an air in fuel problem and it stopped fuel returning to tank.
He's whipped it off and left the standard pipe running to or from the lift tank and I left it running for half an hour on his advice to charge the battery up and then dropped it back off to him for a fuel filter change. Hopefully that will cure it and I can carry on removing the signwriting and get rid of the van after I've used it for a short while first.
Oh, he also said fuel filter currently fitted was an aftermarket one and they weren't much cop so he's going to get a genuine Ford one and fit it for me.
Fingers firmly crossed!

[Father Ted]

oh by the way I was a venture scout as well , had the chiefs scout award

Aye, I did all the badges too, and what not - Queens Scout (met the chief scout when I got that and it wasnt Duncan Dares - some bloke called Morrison IRRC) which I did alongs side the DoE awards - and was actually harder thna the DoE Silver.
Stayed on as a leader in my unit, but had to leave in 95 when the shift paterm and working away of my nursing got so mad that I was missing more meetings than I was attending. Tried to get James interested in Scouting, but its a non starter - hopefully the girls will be a bit more adventurous ( mind you if Jo has anything to do with it they will do the Guiding route as she was a Guider - met her at a camp and one busted airbed later ((the guides thought it was a thunder storm)) the rest is history....)

Bought a new Vango and will be taking the girls camping this bank holiday....

Will dig my camp blanket out and photograph it - its a bit wussy as the original one got damaged and its now a nice blue fleece affair - only thats a guide ass'n one, not scout one - the wife bought it for me......


Im the one in tights....

[Vanny]

god I worked for them for ten years I think i know how these things work

Come on cocky bollocks, other than making a passing guess, then there aint any 100% ways to do it. If its real then speak up, but your the first person i have ever known to think there was any truth about the matter.

[Father Ted]

The BBC states that a search warrant would never be applied for solely on the basis of non-cooperation with TV Licensing and that in the event of being denied access to unlicensed property will use detection equipment rather than a search warrant.

I have to admit, I have always thought this utter bollocks myself, so would love to know how they actually do it.

[Vanny]

So a quick bit of research and I seem to be coming up trumps. The principles the BBC/TVLicensing tout are reasonably sound, and it is a principle of picking up modified UHF (modified to 39kHz), these principles only work with analogue signals (personally i use free view, which is digital), and it only really works with older CRT monitors. But its a principle, not a real thing.

The heat maps shown above, called spectrograms, demonstrate that it is extremely hard to detect a working TV. Trying to detect a TV from the streets requires technology so advanced even the BBC, with its guaranteed yearly income, is not willing to invest in. More important: No one has ever been prosecuted on the basis of TV Detection evidence. You see, evidence cannot be heard in a court of law unless it is available to both the prosecution and the defence, and since TV Licensing and the BBC refuse to disclose the technology they use, detection results cannot be admitted as evidence.

So, three things backing up the point that it doesn't work;
1) The principles only work in short range in a clean environment
2) Making it work at range is extremely expensive, and the BBC dont bother with the investment
3) It is spying, illegal and not submissible evidence

Mickey, i've got to ask, is there something more to it than what the Beeb spout on there website? And did you actually do the detecting, or where you one of the foot soldiers, it was my impression they just have a big number of temp foot soldiers and very few permanant staff.

Pays well, looked at doing it a few times now, but after having to deal with the aftermath of one of these lieing bastards, i have very little respect for the profession and tactics employed. The scumbag that came round asked a manner of questions similar to those below (as a note this is a 8 tenant shared house, seperate contracts, locked rooms);
question : Do you own a TV?
my answer : No i dont, dont know about anyone else.
answer he submitted to the TVLicensing : Yes
question : If you had a TV what channels could you receive
my answer : God knows, the same as every one else i guess
answer he submitted to the TVLicensing : Regularly watches BBC1, BBC2, ITV, C4, C5
question : Do you have internet and what is your supplier?
my answer : Yes, Telewest i guess
answer he submitted to the TVLicensing : Has telewest set top box
question : How long have you lived at this address
my answer : 3 months or so
answer he submitted to the TVLicensing : Has lived in the premises without license for 18 months

and a long list of other bollocks. I still have some of it some where. Suffice to say two days later i got a demand of overdue payment for a license, very closely followed by threats of court summons, all in my name! Fucking diabolical. Multiple complaints to TV Licensing where met with 'you'll have to pay' or 'someone will get back to you'. Never did, caused more and more trouble. What a joke. In future i will answer any of them with one simple question, do you have a warrant? No, oh well, good bye!

[mickey taker]

ok firstly remember it was between 1984 and 1997 when I worked for them so it wasnt digital television then and things may have changed but remember I did say it was a leyland sherpa detector van,

We were employed by the post office on contract to the national tv licence records office.

We were not employed by dodgy debt collectors like interum justicia who are one of the regional companys used now, therefore we werent chasing quotas like they are now.

The van deffinately worked and I was trained as an operator .

now remember this was a while ago but as I remember it the detector picked up on an oscilation that was between the picture and sound frequency.

we had a file of different oscilation frequencys for each area of Britain which told us what channel they were watching.

When you went to the door and the customer saw the van and you told them you had detected a television in use on a certain channel on the premesis , most people would put there hands up .

We always asked to see the set and if the customer refused that was of course there right we never implied we had any right to enter the premesis.

most of the calls were computer generated .

there was a reminder visit where a licence had been renewed for 3 months

there was a new tenant visit where a person had notified us of a new address so we went round to there old address to see what was happening there.

there was a dealer notification where someone had bought a new tv , video etc and we were notified by the dealer.

there was a prosecution follow up visit where we went back to an offenders address to make sure they had taken out a licence after going to court.

Of course there were anonymous tip offs we followed up

there was a postal comb where we would go to every house in an area that did not show a licence

and then there was the van comb which was basically a postal comb with the vans as back up

In my time all statements were taken in accordance with p.a.c.e. and the customer was formally cautioned , they were also given the opportunity to read and sign the report and keep a copy

where they signed it said in bold ink
I confirm that I was cautioned and that this is a true statement of facts

[mickey taker]

Oh by the way, in those days it was an absolute offence with no defence.
i.e. any adult caught using a tv without a licence at a property could be prosecuted whether it was there tele or not and even whether it was there house or not.

It was also an offence to watch tv programs recorded on video .

So even if your tele had no aerial but you were caught watching a video of a tv program you could be nicked

[Philhod]

About on a par with fucking speed camera's then

[smiffy]

I believe if you are watching stuff on i-player, you have to have a licence...

[smiffy]

Hey, you did Ventures too? Mee too! ..

It was a period of my life that I look back on with great fondness.
I eventually had to leave, because of work commitments.
The things I used to enjoy most, were pot holeing, Night games (no you dirty fuckers, not those night games) where you drop the teams off in the middle of nowhere, with just a torch, a compass, and a map, and they have to find their way back to base.
The camping weekends were great too, building rope swings, ladders, and aeriel runways for the younger scouts.
For those who don't know, venture scouts are for age 15 til 20. I once had one kid who was 18 ask how much beer he was allowed to bring. When I answered as much as you can carry, his reply was "oh good, my car can carry lots!"

[Father Ted]

One of the first things I learned when I joined the VSU was pub opening hours (back in the days before all day opening!).
Bob & me took a group up ( or rather down) Gaping Ghyll one bank holiday - mucking fagic that was.