BXProject

jayw wrote:There is no legal requirement for them to have "British MPH" dials providing they do acurrately display MPH (just as ours display KMH in smaller numbers).

Unfortunately the French aren't as thoughtful as to provide the km speedos with mph markings...


Didn't know that about stickers - I was under the impression they were legal?

mat_the_cat wrote:Unfortunately the French aren't as thoughtful as to provide the km speedos with mph markings...

Didn't know that... useless bloody frogs

Nope, stickers are definitely not allowed, equally all those chavvy "white dial" kits (or whatever colour you buy off ebay) are also technically illegal... but you really do have to find someone who gives a flying toss to care! You can stick what you like to the glass/bezel but not to the actual dial.

To my mind it'd be better to stick 'em to the dial, otherwise it'd be bloody distracting trying to read something stuck on the glass! But I guess there's no proof whether the km/h markings tie up with the mph ones.

I only knew that about the French dials after driving one over there - very weird! Normally I don't have a problem driving a LHD car, as you have to get used to both the car and the steering wheel being on the wrong side. But in a car that you know, sitting on the wrong side just felt so strange. Familiar but different...

But the numbers on the BX ARE a sticker, if not a big one. I can't see how BX OEM dials are illegal and the lockwoods dials aren't.

I think i've got a 50 to 50 ratio of MOT's with and without working speedo's. My understanding was that the ODO has to work, correctly, but the speedo is irrelevant as its only an indication, and not the actual road speed. Jazz has been reading 10 miles an hour continuously for the last two years, and hasn't covered much more then 1000mm.

spot checks where two coppers have gone round the car with a clipboard making notes trying to find something

I had this treatment on several occasions when I was younger, but was only prosecuted for an offence once.
I went to court with it and after the copper gave his evidence, I asked him to produce his vehicle examiners badge, which of course he didn't have. Case dismissed.

If ever you do get pulled, don't be a smart arse like me, ask to see his badge. If he aint got one, he aint qualified to inspect you motor, end of.

Ooh, I just thought, a pair of LHD headlights would be good, for if I do any foreign driving....
I'll obviously cross your palm with silver if you find what I'm after!

We could do with some 'BXP' LHD headlights to pass around!

I usually just stick those black things on, I get with my insurance pack.

Vanny wrote:I think i've got a 50 to 50 ratio of MOT's with and without working speedo's

Doesn't surprise me, whilst a working speedo/ODO is required for C&U regs it's not a testable MOT item, so neither have to work for MOT as long as they're present.

Just adds to the many millions of examples of pointless laws in this country!

Took a while to find but:
Speedometers

Fitting

Regulation 35 Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 states that every motor vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer except:

a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 m.p.h.,
a vehicle which, at all times, is unlawful to drive at more than 25 m.p.h.,
an agricultural motor vehicle driven at not more than 20 m.p.h.,
a motor cycle not exceeding 100cc first used before 1st April 1984,
an invalid carriage first used before 1st April 1984,
a works truck first used before 1st April 1984,
any vehicle first used before 1st October 1937,
a vehicle fitted with an approved tachograph which is required or not.

Vehicles first used on or after 1st April 1984 the speedometer should be capable of indicating the speed in miles per hour and kilometres per hour. Vehicles may instead comply with EC Regulation (Community Directive) 97/39 or ECE Reg 39.
These directives stipulate the markings, graduations of the speedometer and refer to 75/443/EEC which specifies the tolerances.

The indicated speed must never be less than the true speed (it must read exact or high) and between 40km/h and 120km/h the error must not exceed 10% + 2.5 m.p.h. high (true speed/10 + 4kph).
This means at a true speed of 25mph or 40km/h the speedometer may read 40/10+4 = 8km/h or 5mph high = 30mph indicated.

Maintenance

Regulation 36 Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 states that the speedometer fitted to a vehicle must be kept free from any obstruction which may prevent it from being easily read and shall at all times it is used on a road be maintained in good working order except if:

the speedometer became defective during the journey being undertaken, or
steps have been taken to have the defect remedied by replacement or repair with all reasonable expedition, or
the vehicle is fitted with an approved tachograph which is required to be fitted under the Community Recording Equipment Regulation (offence is under that regulation).

Philhod wrote:I asked him to produce his vehicle examiners badge, which of course he didn't have. Case dismissed.

That surprises me! Any officer of the law is entitled to "report the suspicion"
of an offence and then present their evidence. That's a bit like throwing out a case of dangerous driving because the copper wasn't a "danger" expert...

jayw wrote:good working order except if:

the speedometer became defective during the journey being undertaken

So how can they prove otherwise on that one? I suspect that every vehicle in history ever stopped with a non working speedo developed the fault on that very journey! It may be less beleiveable to claim that the speedo changed from mph to km/h though...

Interestingly, the January 2012 MOT changes may incorporate basic checks on the MOT. They are still in the consulatation stages at the moment AFAIK but the draft of the new tester's manual states:

Information

This inspection applies to all vehicles first used on or after 01 October 1937.
If the dial glass is cracked, it is not a Reason for Rejection, providing:

there is no possibility of misreading the speedometer or
there is no possibility fouling of the indicator needle or
the cracked glass does not create a safety hazard.
A Tachograph is an acceptable alternative to a speedometer providing it satisfies the requirements of this inspection.

Method of Inspection

1. Check that a speedometer is fitted.
2. Check the condition of the speedometer.
3. Check that the speedometer can be illuminated.

Reason for Rejection

1. Speedometer not fitted.
2. Speedometer incomplete, clearly inoperative or the dial glass is broken or missing.
3. The speedometer cannot be illuminated.

This is currently only applicable to Class 5 vehicles.

Any idea how Construction and Use applies to Prototype vehicles? I suspect it generally wont?

I doubt they'd be relevent as Prototypes are'n't meant for actual use, although i'd suspect there'd be little point in not considering the regulations. Of course, if you wanted to use it on the road you'd need an SVA which means you'd meet the full force of C&U.

Prototypes go on the road without an SVA, and they are meant for road use, how else do you know when your suspension is useless or the bolts arent big enough to hold the doors on?

Vanny wrote:how else do you know when your suspension is useless or the bolts arent big enough to hold the doors on?

Isn't that what a Proving Ground is for?

Cheers for posting up the regs Jay,

So the (74) bus needs a speedo but its only vehicles first used after 1984 need to display in mph + kmph. There's no mention that vehicles used before that date need to display mph so its fine

Unfortunatly I have a feeling that my 94 Yamaha motorbikes aftermarket speedo only reads in mph so that is illegal. Well its been sorned for the last 5 years so no immediate panic

jayw wrote:Isn't that what a Proving Ground is for

Erm, if you put the whole prototype fleet, of all in development models on the tarmac at a proving ground, i suspect you'd have a scene similar to the M25 on a bad day! No, thats what America is for, its much bigger.

They must have some way around it. I know they all have to be crushed for tax reasons.

I suppose the fact that my copy of C&U is dated 1969 doesn't help but I used it as guidelines when I built my first trike

catsinthewelder wrote:Cheers for posting up the regs Jay,

So the (74) bus needs a speedo but its only vehicles first used after 1984 need to display in mph + kmph. There's no mention that vehicles used before that date need to display mph so its fine

Unfortunatly I have a feeling that my 94 Yamaha motorbikes aftermarket speedo only reads in mph so that is illegal. Well its been sorned for the last 5 years so no immediate panic

Local stage carriage (not private hire) buses do not need a speedo at all, and never have. Buses used for longer serice routes are required to have a tachograph, and comply with drivers hours regs.

Sorry wrong company to call it a bus in, its a VW camper

The body type on the V5c is minibus mind

smiffy wrote: Local stage carriage (not private hire) buses do not need a speedo at all, and never have.

So, are they fitted with a governor set at 30mph perhaps?

If not and you exceed this with Plod noting it on his Radar gun, is the driver exempt from prosecution?