Working on cars (any car) is mostly a horrific ordeal which will leave you miserable and soul destroyed, you might well end up turning to alchohol and loosing the will to shave (bearded real ale drinkers is the typical look for a BX owner). But at least you'll probably live!
This short guide is to help automotive DIY new comers understand just exactly what they did to become maimed, cut, lacerated, or how they ended up in A+E and don't remember a thing! For some this guide will state the obvious because like the rest of us they've been there before and know full well not to lower the car down from a jack with tools under neath the car. For others this will be a guide on how to rapidly remove yourself from the gene pool!
We start with getting the vehicle into a position to do basic work (including the use of planks, kerbs, breeze blocks and other building materials) and work upto the more advanced and expensive methods such as concrete and hardwood (oh and trolley jacks, axle stands, ramps etc).
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Vanny
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docchevron132
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Working on your car 101
To begin, it must be understood that as Vanny said, working on car's is an awful experience. So by far the best method is to employ a garage to do all the work to your daily hack. However, if you are tight, or broke, or both, then DIY bodging is often the only way.
Working under any vehicle brings with it certain risks.
However any hydraulically suspended Citroën's carry a slightley larger risk.
Now, I am far from the best person to be giving advice here, since I do everything the HSE would be getting high blood pressure about, but since I have a death wish I dont really care, and I'm living proof that even with no common sense you can work on a Citroën without being killed!
So, on to business:
There are various methods employed for the purpose of lifting cars.
By far the best and safest are one, two or four post lifts.
post lifts
Since few of us have access to these almost mythical things, we are reduced to using jacks, axle stands, car ramps, bit's of wood etc.
Jacks
axle stands
ramps
bits of wood
It goes without saying that unless in an emergency (changing a tyre or the such) any car you are attempting to jack up should be on level SOLID ground.
In the case of the BX, jacking the front of the car is pretty simple, either place the jack pad under the subframe on the outer edges where the wishbone attaches, or at the very back of the subframe where it is bolted to the floor of the car, OR directly on the floor of the car just behind where the subframe bolts to the floor where the two little rubber grommits are.
Jacking the back end up is a little more difficult and requires a touch more thought since there isn't much at the back end substantial enough to place a jack under.
The best places are either the very end of the subframe where the BIG rubber bush is located, or under the radius arm where it points towards the floor, the same face the suspension cylinder pushrod is attached to.
I dont recommend jacking a BX on the sills, unless they are totally rot free.
In terms of placing axle stands, at the front end any of the three points listed for jacking, or under the strengthened part of the sill (again, if the sill is in good condition).
At the back end, the easiest place is under the sill (again where the strengthening plate is) or under the axle tube inboard of the rear arms.
If using ramps, ever noticed that they either lift or fly out as you drive on to them?
Get yourself two long lengths of carpet or the such. wrap one end right around the ramp and secure the carpet to the ramp. Then trail the carpet away from the ramp so that (assuming you are driving the front wheels on to the ramps) the rear wheels are sat on the other end of the carpet BEFORE the front wheels touch the ramps. Then the weight of the car applied to the carpet at the back end prevents the ramps from flying away as you drive on to them!
At all times, be sure that there is enough room under the car for you to comfortably fit, even if the car is on LOW.
NEVER rely on the suspension alone to keep a safe working height, they can drop VERY quickly.
In terms of equipment, always buy the best you can afford.
Trolley jacks are preferable to bottle jacks as they are more stable.
Also trolley jack quality varies enormousley, the best to get is a jack with a capacity far greater than required with wide spaced wheels. Again, this gives greater stability.
The same applies to axle stands. The wider the base, and the larger the area of the feet the better, this spreads the load and again, makes things more stable.
The back end of a BX is fairly lightweight but can still kill you if you it falls on you.
NEVER TAKE ANY CHANCES.
In this case, do as I say, not as I do....
Working under any vehicle brings with it certain risks.
However any hydraulically suspended Citroën's carry a slightley larger risk.
Now, I am far from the best person to be giving advice here, since I do everything the HSE would be getting high blood pressure about, but since I have a death wish I dont really care, and I'm living proof that even with no common sense you can work on a Citroën without being killed!
So, on to business:
There are various methods employed for the purpose of lifting cars.
By far the best and safest are one, two or four post lifts.
post lifts
Since few of us have access to these almost mythical things, we are reduced to using jacks, axle stands, car ramps, bit's of wood etc.
Jacks
axle stands
ramps
bits of wood
It goes without saying that unless in an emergency (changing a tyre or the such) any car you are attempting to jack up should be on level SOLID ground.
In the case of the BX, jacking the front of the car is pretty simple, either place the jack pad under the subframe on the outer edges where the wishbone attaches, or at the very back of the subframe where it is bolted to the floor of the car, OR directly on the floor of the car just behind where the subframe bolts to the floor where the two little rubber grommits are.
Jacking the back end up is a little more difficult and requires a touch more thought since there isn't much at the back end substantial enough to place a jack under.
The best places are either the very end of the subframe where the BIG rubber bush is located, or under the radius arm where it points towards the floor, the same face the suspension cylinder pushrod is attached to.
I dont recommend jacking a BX on the sills, unless they are totally rot free.
In terms of placing axle stands, at the front end any of the three points listed for jacking, or under the strengthened part of the sill (again, if the sill is in good condition).
At the back end, the easiest place is under the sill (again where the strengthening plate is) or under the axle tube inboard of the rear arms.
If using ramps, ever noticed that they either lift or fly out as you drive on to them?
Get yourself two long lengths of carpet or the such. wrap one end right around the ramp and secure the carpet to the ramp. Then trail the carpet away from the ramp so that (assuming you are driving the front wheels on to the ramps) the rear wheels are sat on the other end of the carpet BEFORE the front wheels touch the ramps. Then the weight of the car applied to the carpet at the back end prevents the ramps from flying away as you drive on to them!
At all times, be sure that there is enough room under the car for you to comfortably fit, even if the car is on LOW.
NEVER rely on the suspension alone to keep a safe working height, they can drop VERY quickly.
In terms of equipment, always buy the best you can afford.
Trolley jacks are preferable to bottle jacks as they are more stable.
Also trolley jack quality varies enormousley, the best to get is a jack with a capacity far greater than required with wide spaced wheels. Again, this gives greater stability.
The same applies to axle stands. The wider the base, and the larger the area of the feet the better, this spreads the load and again, makes things more stable.
The back end of a BX is fairly lightweight but can still kill you if you it falls on you.
NEVER TAKE ANY CHANCES.
In this case, do as I say, not as I do....
1989 BX 17TD P2 Hybrid
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
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Way2go
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I think that's an excellent and very useful post, Doc. 
Identification of other jacking points is welcome. Even when the sills are fine, some jacks can bend the strengthened sill points as I found when I used a Halfords trolley Jack (Bent the front point as this jack causes lateral movement unlike the previous clarkes trolley jack (longer wheel base on jack and better as it goes lower and you can get it under a BX which is down on its stops)
Pedant Mode:
This term "hydraulically suspended Citroen" which is often bandied about; surely it is not suspended at all as it is not hung from "skyhooks".
The suspension units are akin to pit props so should be "hydraulically elevated" maybe if propped doesn't conjure up the right image?
End of Pedant Mode
Identification of other jacking points is welcome. Even when the sills are fine, some jacks can bend the strengthened sill points as I found when I used a Halfords trolley Jack (Bent the front point as this jack causes lateral movement unlike the previous clarkes trolley jack (longer wheel base on jack and better as it goes lower and you can get it under a BX which is down on its stops)Pedant Mode:
This term "hydraulically suspended Citroen" which is often bandied about; surely it is not suspended at all as it is not hung from "skyhooks".
The suspension units are akin to pit props so should be "hydraulically elevated" maybe if propped doesn't conjure up the right image?End of Pedant Mode
1991 BX19GTi Auto
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Way2go
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Surely something can't be suspended on top? By definition, suspended means sustained somewhere between top and bottom. And in the case of the Cit, body work is top.Vanny wrote:the bodywork is suspended on the top of the suspension turrets, so technically the car is suspended. It's one of those round in circles sort of things, but thats where the term originates from.
A suspended ceiling is suspended because it is hung between the structural ceiling and the floor.
1991 BX19GTi Auto
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Vanny
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suspended means to support from sinking or falling. While the term 'suspend' is often used when hanging from an elevated position (such as a suspended ceiling) the word suspended does not relate to the positioning of the suspension mechanism. Thus a car body is suspended in the air by the suspension, kind of figures if you think about the word suspension and it's origin.
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Way2go
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Hey, hang on!Vanny wrote:suspended means to support from sinking or falling. While the term 'suspend' is often used when hanging from an elevated position (such as a suspended ceiling) the word suspended does not relate to the positioning of the suspension mechanism. Thus a car body is suspended in the air by the suspension, kind of figures if you think about the word suspension and it's origin.
Suspension has to be between the bottom and the top by definition. If its a conventional spring system then the car body will never be at the absolute highest position due to the weight of the car.In Citroen BX terms it is easy to mistake the macpherson strut equivalent as its suspension but in reality it is not. This is the error that I made in the puzzle post.
Forget the complicated hydraulics, the springing is by virtue of the BX's body weight resting on the sphere diaphragm and momentarily compressing the nitrogen when encountering bumps. The diaphragms effectively suspend the car between a bottom and top of travel within the sphere. shortening and lengthening of the strut under this process is consequential.
Sorted! --- do you agree?
1991 BX19GTi Auto
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docchevron132
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We are in SERIOUS danger of falling into ANAL BXC mode here. That is not what this place should become, EVER.
The car suspension is called suspension. Always has been.
These articles are for the benefit of the general populus. Not to get anal over words. Dont make me do a Tom.
The car suspension is called suspension. Always has been.
Lets not get anal. Suspension is suspension. Live with it.From the World of Wikipedia wrote: Suspension is the term given to the system of springs, shock absorbers and linkages that connects a vehicle to its wheels. Suspension systems serve a dual purpose – contributing to the car's handling and braking for good active safety and driving pleasure, and keeping vehicle occupants comfortable and reasonably well isolated from road noise, bumps, and vibrations. These goals are generally at odds, so the tuning of suspensions involves finding the right compromise. The suspension also protects the vehicle itself and any cargo or luggage from damage and wear. The design of front and rear suspension of a car may be different.
These articles are for the benefit of the general populus. Not to get anal over words. Dont make me do a Tom.
1989 BX 17TD P2 Hybrid
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
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Vanny
- Site Admin
- Posts: 7512
- Joined: 10 Oct 2006
- Location: BXProjectHQ
This aint the BXC, the term used is correct, this bollocks about the perfect use of the word suspend is exactly that, bollocks! This is a simple guide, your arguements don't add to the content of the original posting, if you want to get philosophical about it either go make a new post on BXC or go have a look through some data then post on F1 Technical!
Will continue to add comical pictures where i can. If anyone has suggestions on this first topic then post them here, in time it will be pulled to a locked area in which all the guides will be gathered!
Will continue to add comical pictures where i can. If anyone has suggestions on this first topic then post them here, in time it will be pulled to a locked area in which all the guides will be gathered!
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mountainmanUK
- New Member
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- Joined: 04 May 2007
- Location: Blackburn, Lancashire, UK
I learned something new from this guide already!!!!!!! 
Never really thought about using the spare wheel (in its cradle) as a jacking point!!! Great idea considering the lack of easily-reached strong points under a BX ar$e-end!
Never really thought about using the spare wheel (in its cradle) as a jacking point!!! Great idea considering the lack of easily-reached strong points under a BX ar$e-end!
"If it has four legs, wags its tail, and barks...the chances are...it's a dog!
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docchevron132
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WHOA Dave!
No no no no no no!!!
The highlights in GREEN are safe jacking points, All the area's in RED are not safe for jacking.
Unless your car gets hit up the arse and you need to modify the boot floor!
Dont get me wrong Wat2go, In a literal sense you may have a point with the use of the word, but it's been like that since the dawn of the motor car.
More importantly, we have this place to escape from analness and nit picking found on BXC.
After all, if you take your car to the garage, you dont say "here boss, I have a problem with my car, the things that make the car a bit spongy and go up and down a bit are making a bit of a noise, and it dont go up and down as well as it did"...
Lets keep things silly and informative in a friendly non anal way. The point at base is, you knew what was meant by the term, and this is NOT the BXC.. End
No no no no no no!!!
The highlights in GREEN are safe jacking points, All the area's in RED are not safe for jacking.
Unless your car gets hit up the arse and you need to modify the boot floor!
I have no idea what F1 technical is, but otherwise, aye man.Vanny wrote:This aint the BXC, the term used is correct, this bollocks about the perfect use of the word suspend is exactly that, bollocks! This is a simple guide, your arguements don't add to the content of the original posting, if you want to get philosophical about it either go make a new post on BXC or go have a look through some data then post on F1 Technical!
Dont get me wrong Wat2go, In a literal sense you may have a point with the use of the word, but it's been like that since the dawn of the motor car.
More importantly, we have this place to escape from analness and nit picking found on BXC.
After all, if you take your car to the garage, you dont say "here boss, I have a problem with my car, the things that make the car a bit spongy and go up and down a bit are making a bit of a noise, and it dont go up and down as well as it did"...
Lets keep things silly and informative in a friendly non anal way. The point at base is, you knew what was meant by the term, and this is NOT the BXC.. End
1989 BX 17TD P2 Hybrid
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
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Way2go
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I agree, suspension is suspension. Initial remark was supposed to be "tongue in cheek" and comical (ala BXC) about hydraulically "suspended" following my compliments on your article.docchevron1472 wrote:Dont get me wrong Wat2go, In a literal sense you may have a point with the use of the word, but it's been like that since the dawn of the motor car.
More importantly, we have this place to escape from analness and nit picking found on BXC.
I expanded the point when pushed but really am not fussed and would rather participate in the fun as there was no intention for it to go into BXC style hostility and in any way detract from the main theme. Consequently consider the subject closed from my side and maybe the ot exchanges should be deleted from the thread as they don't constitute anythin useful to the main subject.
1991 BX19GTi Auto
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docchevron132
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It's all good mate.
And look, we're all holding hands again (Er, like not in a gay way or at all actually but you know what I mean) without the need to lock threads, or delete stuff, or get some anal danish prick of a one sided arse plunging moderator to start going ape on people's arses!!
YAY us!
Group hug!!
And look, we're all holding hands again (Er, like not in a gay way or at all actually but you know what I mean) without the need to lock threads, or delete stuff, or get some anal danish prick of a one sided arse plunging moderator to start going ape on people's arses!!
YAY us!
Group hug!!
1989 BX 17TD P2 Hybrid
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
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mountainmanUK
- New Member
- Posts: 142
- Joined: 04 May 2007
- Location: Blackburn, Lancashire, UK
OOOPS!!!!WHOA Dave!
No no no no no no!!!
The highlights in GREEN are safe jacking points, All the area's in RED are not safe for jacking.
Looks like I managed to beat the "idiot-proofing" on Chapter 1 of the new "bible" already!!
I have an excuse.......it's the new drugs I'm on!! Honestly!!
could be a test of the welding in the boot floor corners?!Unless your car gets hit up the arse and you need to modify the boot floor!
"If it has four legs, wags its tail, and barks...the chances are...it's a dog!
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Vanny
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jacking with a large piece of wood accross the spare wheel will cause the wheel to press against the two chassis rails (box section reinforcement really) and will confortably lift the car (done it many times on scrappers) HOWEVER the ends of the rails at the back of the floor are where the boot tends to fail first. I learnt the technique from a car at the scrap yard which some poor sod had tried to do the same, clearly not noticing the montego parked on the BX's roof and promptyl would the jack straight through the boot floor getting it trapped in the process!
For expansion, it might be worth explaining a brief amount about how the different jacks operate, how to use the suspension to cheat, how to get the car off the ground where there is no suspension, how to use the very good supplied jack in case of a wheel change, and a brief on just WHY its a stupid idea to get under a BX without the susension working (i'm thinking of a video with the suspension on full, engine off and the pressure released suddenly, perhaps if we can find a working 'soon to be scrapper' then we could put a variety of things under the BX and crush them!)
For expansion, it might be worth explaining a brief amount about how the different jacks operate, how to use the suspension to cheat, how to get the car off the ground where there is no suspension, how to use the very good supplied jack in case of a wheel change, and a brief on just WHY its a stupid idea to get under a BX without the susension working (i'm thinking of a video with the suspension on full, engine off and the pressure released suddenly, perhaps if we can find a working 'soon to be scrapper' then we could put a variety of things under the BX and crush them!)
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docchevron132
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Good idea Vanster.
Crack on young man!
I might even have some service guides for all the TU / XU motors finished by the weekend.. Maybe..
You back from Wankydam yet??
Crack on young man!
I might even have some service guides for all the TU / XU motors finished by the weekend.. Maybe..
You back from Wankydam yet??
1989 BX 17TD P2 Hybrid
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
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smiffy
- Centenial time waster
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mountainmanUK
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- Location: Blackburn, Lancashire, UK
Can we expect to see that CX on t'Bay soon?
(Classic Citroen CX - Full Service history - just needs a few bits for MOT - can't see any reason why it shouldn't sail through! - Oh sorry I just noticed that there is a small problem with the engine. Start price only £4000 to reflect new tyre needed")
(Classic Citroen CX - Full Service history - just needs a few bits for MOT - can't see any reason why it shouldn't sail through! - Oh sorry I just noticed that there is a small problem with the engine. Start price only £4000 to reflect new tyre needed")
"If it has four legs, wags its tail, and barks...the chances are...it's a dog!