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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by mat_the_cat » 19 Jul 2011

Yeah, I'm agreed it *must* be timing. When I ever get round to it I'll let you know!
Philhod wrote:Once you have set the belt tension, before starting, if you do 4 complete revolutions by hand, (just put some chalk on the belt to know when it's round) It equals out the tension in the belt on all runs :wink:
But but but, I just can't see this - if the cam and crank stay stationary and you put the belt on round the water pump - has to be slack as the belt run using the genuine waterpump does not correspond to an exact number of teeth. If you then allow the tension to equalise then surely the cam and crank *must* alter their timing in relation to each other! What I should have done instead of putting the old water pump back on, is lock the cam and crank, and rotate the cam pulley on the cam so that the belt fitted correctly...

No flywheel hole on this one - the official tool has 2 teeth on it which fit into a slot in the bellhousing and is secured with one of the bellhousing bolts. You then use a feeler gauge between the teeth to ensure no. 1 is at TDC.
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by Philhod » 19 Jul 2011

:) Not a PD then?
The slack in the belt just equalises round the whole run. It can't move from the teeth it was set on. The tensioners/ idlers run on the back of the belt thus allowing the very small movement in the tension without altering the original setting.
I think what you said about re aligning the cam sprocket makes sense but quite honestly I have never seen a cam sprocket that is not locked in position somehow. Without that it will slip over time, shit or bust! 8)
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by mat_the_cat » 20 Jul 2011

Philhod wrote:I have never seen a cam sprocket that is not locked in position somehow. Without that it will slip over time, shit or bust! 8)
Neither had I, although I've had less experience! It was quite a surprise when I removed it not to find any keyway, all that stops it slipping over time is the bolt torque (100Nm).
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by docchevron132 » 20 Jul 2011

I have, mainly on commercial stuff though and they always have the good sense to put easily seeable timing marks on the crank and cam...
and see Phil, whilst what you say about belt runs is right, IF you start the run off from crank to water pump to cam, then although the run stays the same, and the tooth application on the non tensioner side of the run remains the same, if the sprocket on the pump hs say 3 less teeth, then the varience will be on the tensioner side, or between the run direct betwixt cam and crank, hence it could be a tooth out, or even 2. all depending on HOW the belt was fitted. It's poosible on the valver to fit the belt in the right order, but there's a tensioner on each side, used for fine tuning the cam timing, since you can swing the tensioners about to vary the cams in relation to TDC on the crank, BUT, it's also possible to follow the book exactley, but if the concentric rollers are fitted such that one side is under full relex and the other on full thrust, then even though the belt run is the same, the cams will exactley one tooth and 2° out on the crank!
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by mat_the_cat » 20 Jul 2011

docchevron132 wrote:they always have the good sense to put easily seeable timing marks on the crank and cam...
Hahahahahahahahahaha!

Ahahahahahahahhahaha!

I wish - I've managed to find a manual for an older version of my engine, and basically what you have to do is take the injector pump drive pulley off the back of the cam, then set the crank so that no. 1 cylinder is at TDC (flywheel & bellhousing marks line up). Then take off the cam cover, and to check timing there is a special tool which is screwed down using the cam cover fixings and should slide into a slot on the back of the camshaft. If it doesn't, then you have to rotate the engine so the cam is in the correct position, lock it with the tool, then slack off the front camshaft drive pulley and rotate the crank until that is correct.
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by Philhod » 20 Jul 2011

Thereby hangs a tail. I always start by linig up cam and pump, irrespective of where the tensioner/s are or what the book says and the crank last. :oops:

That sounds utter shite to me Mat :shock:
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by mat_the_cat » 20 Jul 2011

Could be worse I suppose - I have to take the cam cover off anyway to change the tappets. I reckon the injector pump timing to the crank will remain unaltered if I can lock the pump? Logic being if the flywheel marks line up, because the pump is (now) correctly timed to the bottom end the pump locking pin should slide in (I made it with an old bolt in the chuck of a drill, using an angle grinder to turn it down :oops: ). If I then take off the pump belt, move the cam timing around if needed then so long as the bottom end of the engine is in the same position, the crank to pump timing will still be the same when I put on the belt...

Moral of the story being, I'll never assume something is correct to start with!
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by Philhod » 20 Jul 2011

:) Sounds reasonable.

What sort of nut holds the cam sprocket on? I would use a new self locking type nut, if I was doing it. The crushed head nylock ones are best, you can get them in all sizes and in full or 1/2 nut, if you have restricted space. 8)

I would even be tempted to fit a key once I had it right. :wink:
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by mat_the_cat » 20 Jul 2011

It's a bolt holding it on, but I think it would be wise to use a spot of threadlock...

Key sounds good, but I'm struggling to see how you'd put one in?
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by Philhod » 20 Jul 2011

Well it's a type of key, it's a locking mechanism really.

You can't do it with a bolt so you get a stud, or what I usually do is cut the bolt head off.

Slide the sprocket on at the correct setting, then clamp it temporarily.
at a point anywhere on the pcd formed by the outer dia of the bolt and the inner dia of the sprocket, center pop it then drill (3mm) down cutting 1/2 into each of the diameters, just short of the width of the sprocket. Open it up using a suitable tapping size drill. Say 4.2 mill to tap M6. C/bore the hole slightly deeper than the head of the M6 allen screw you are going to use.
Finally screw in your screw (stainless prefered) and peen th lip over.
Believe me. That won't come out or move until you want it to :wink:
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by mat_the_cat » 21 Jul 2011

Ah. I was thinking something similar with a roll pin. I thought you meant put a woodruff key in!
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by docchevron132 » 21 Jul 2011

I'd weld the cunt on!
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by Philhod » 21 Jul 2011

:lol: Well if the thread has an exact stopping point at which it won't go any further at a given torque, then I guess you could at that.
The method I chose allows the sprocket to be removed without the bolt which you could fit with blue locktite. The screw also stops any lateral movement along the shaft which a roll pin would allow unless you put it in so tight it wouldn't come out again. :oops:
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by Philhod » 21 Jul 2011

:lol: Well if the thread has an exact stopping point at which it won't go any further at a given torque, then I guess you could at that.
The method I chose allows the sprocket to be removed without the bolt which you could fit with blue locktite. The screw also stops any lateral movement along the shaft which a roll pin would allow unless you put it in so tight it wouldn't come out again. :oops:
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by mat_the_cat » 21 Jul 2011

There bloody well shouldn't be any lateral movement! Food for thought anyway, although whether I'll ever have the confidence that it's 'right' I'm not sure!

Welding it on may prove a tad issuous when it comes to replacing the cam seal though...
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by docchevron132 » 21 Jul 2011

thats what silicone is for mate.... :wink:
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by Philhod » 21 Jul 2011

:? Oh! I thought that was for making bigger tits :lol:
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by docchevron132 » 22 Jul 2011

that statement works in both contexts!
1989 BX 17TD P2 Hybrid
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!


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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by mat_the_cat » 27 Jul 2011

Well, I'm making all the progress of a sloth on tranquillisers, but I have in fact managed to take the rocker cover off.

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Problem is, more important things (like collecting wood for the winter) and more interesting things (like putting in a level gauge for the water tank, and putting in lots of pretty LEDs) keep getting in the way!

Camshaft doesn't look too bad, so I'll be popping down to the garage to try and borrow their tools for this weekend.
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Re: Hydraulic tappets

Post by docchevron132 » 27 Jul 2011

those cam bearing caps dont half remind me of something else that I forget now..
Shit idea though eh?
1989 BX 17TD P2 Hybrid
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!


Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.

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