- jayw
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Injection
Does anyone have a cutaway-type diagram of our Bosch injectors?
Also i found this...
The Motronic 4.1 system was used on Opel / Vauxhall eight-valve engines from 1987-1990,[4] and some PSA Peugeot Citroën XU9J-series engines.[5]
The ECU software controls fuel enrichment during cold-start by altering the timing of the main injectors based on engine temperature, no 5th injector is required. The idle speed is also fully controlled by the ECU, including fast-idle during warm-up (no thermo-time switch is required).
The 4.1 system did not include provision for a knock sensor for timing adjustment. The ignition timing and fuel map could be altered to take account of fuels with different octane ratings by connecting a calibrated resistor (taking the form of an "octane coding plug" in the vehicle's wiring loom) to one of the ECU pins, the resistance depending on the octane adjustment required[4]. With no resistor attached the system would default to 98 octane.
The ECU has a single output for the injectors, resulting in all injectors firing simultaneously. The injectors are opened twice for every revolution of the engine, injecting half the required fuel each time.[4]
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How much dofference would this "resistor" make?
Also i found this...
The Motronic 4.1 system was used on Opel / Vauxhall eight-valve engines from 1987-1990,[4] and some PSA Peugeot Citroën XU9J-series engines.[5]
The ECU software controls fuel enrichment during cold-start by altering the timing of the main injectors based on engine temperature, no 5th injector is required. The idle speed is also fully controlled by the ECU, including fast-idle during warm-up (no thermo-time switch is required).
The 4.1 system did not include provision for a knock sensor for timing adjustment. The ignition timing and fuel map could be altered to take account of fuels with different octane ratings by connecting a calibrated resistor (taking the form of an "octane coding plug" in the vehicle's wiring loom) to one of the ECU pins, the resistance depending on the octane adjustment required[4]. With no resistor attached the system would default to 98 octane.
The ECU has a single output for the injectors, resulting in all injectors firing simultaneously. The injectors are opened twice for every revolution of the engine, injecting half the required fuel each time.[4]
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How much dofference would this "resistor" make?
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Re: Injection
between cock and feck all, they've been sold on eBlag for years with a promise of +17bhp, +17 if the car setup for 90octane fuel maybe (doubtful) but in terms of actual gain, not a lot. You can richen the fuel mixture pretty easily anyways.
- jayw
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Re: Injection
I've seen them plugged into the loom on the offside wing but never really paid any attention to it...
Just thought there might be something to be gained if you're running it on Tesco 99 with the green 95 plug in it...
Just thought there might be something to be gained if you're running it on Tesco 99 with the green 95 plug in it...
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Re: Injection
Don't know, but if it gets rid of my effin knock sensor problem then praise be!
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- docchevron132
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Re: Injection
you'd have to change to a proper ECU then Bandit...
I wasn't aware of the resistor thing, not that I'm too fussed, since my cars only ever run on 99RON.
But, with fuel proces going the way the are, maybe resistorising it for 95RON could be a bonus... hmmm.
I wasn't aware of the resistor thing, not that I'm too fussed, since my cars only ever run on 99RON.
But, with fuel proces going the way the are, maybe resistorising it for 95RON could be a bonus... hmmm.
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- mat_the_cat
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Re: Injection
I might do that Doc, one day, when the moon has dissolved and the sun is a 60watt blub!
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- jayw
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Re: Injection
So, returning to topic....
No-one got a schematic / cutaway of an injector?
No-one got a schematic / cutaway of an injector?
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Re: Injection
Pretty sure there is one in the Bosch blue book. I've deffinatley seen one, so try Google
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Re: Injection
Don't you ever..............EVER return a thread back on topicjayw wrote:So, returning to topic....
No-one got a schematic / cutaway of an injector?
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Re: Injection
oi lazy git,
that took all of ONE google search, and the first result no less.
http://www.northamptonmotorsport.com/default.asp?id=95
that took all of ONE google search, and the first result no less.
http://www.northamptonmotorsport.com/default.asp?id=95
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Re: Injection
Yeah........................!
Bitch!
Bitch!
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- docchevron132
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Re: Injection
Looks suspiciousley like an injector cut away to me...
1989 BX 17TD P2 Hybrid
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1971 BL 350FG ambulance
1993 Dennis Lance 132 It's got mahooosive hairy bollocks!
Euthenasia, because enough's enough already.
1990 BX 16V It's got big hairy bollocks
1971 BL 350FG ambulance
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Re: Injection
I know I'm being typically dull here, but, quoting him from Barsingstark:
"The ECU has a single output for the injectors, resulting in all injectors firing simultaneously. The injectors are opened twice for every revolution of the engine, injecting half the required fuel each time.[4]"
How the fuck does the engine get the right amount of fuel in the right cylinder at the right time and what happens to the fuel not used? I thought I knew this when I read up on injection when I got the valver, but now it makes less sense than I remember!
"The ECU has a single output for the injectors, resulting in all injectors firing simultaneously. The injectors are opened twice for every revolution of the engine, injecting half the required fuel each time.[4]"
How the fuck does the engine get the right amount of fuel in the right cylinder at the right time and what happens to the fuel not used? I thought I knew this when I read up on injection when I got the valver, but now it makes less sense than I remember!
....There he goes, one of God's own prototypes, a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production......too weird too live.....and too rare to die
- jayw
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Re: Injection
I tried that and gave up after 10 minutes with no joyVanny wrote:that took all of ONE google search, and the first result no less.
Don't knock it, Basingstoke comes highly recommended by the Drift boys, Freerunners, Tarmac PLC and Criminals... With backing like that you can't go wrong...Bx Bandit wrote:quoting him from Barsingstark:
Part ComSen, part speculation (the ratio is dependent on how much i get corrected )...Bx Bandit wrote:How the fuck does the engine get the right amount of fuel in the right cylinder at the right time and what happens to the fuel not used? I thought I knew this when I read up on injection when I got the valver, but now it makes less sense than I remember!
Injecting twice would allow more accuracy of fuel quantity (using hopper theory). I'd assume during 3rd/4th stroke, once on the down and once on the up stroke. Would also assist with improved vaporisation..
The only problem with that theory is that whilst cylinders are on strokes 3/4, the one(s) on stroke 1/2 would be getting fuel, which (particularly on the exhaust stroke) is a no no....???
So, either that info that i pasted from Wiki is wrong or I understand it about as well as you do Bandit me old luvver...
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Re: Injection
Ooh i wasn't having a go at you me old tater, just trying to figure it out!Part ComSen, part speculation (the ratio is dependent on how much i get corrected )...
....There he goes, one of God's own prototypes, a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production......too weird too live.....and too rare to die
- jayw
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Re: Injection
I never wrote the original post, it were copied from Wiki-tater...Bx Bandit wrote:Ooh i wasn't having a go at you me old tater, just trying to figure it out!Part ComSen, part speculation (the ratio is dependent on how much i get corrected )...
I not figure it out much neither.. is that neither or niether, can't decide which looks right... 'I' before 'E' except after 'C' would suggest niether, but neither looks better... awwwww fuck knows, i give up, i'm off ta boil ma heed in a pat o pish...
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Re: Injection
You NEED to get the Bosch blue book for this one;
ISBN 1-86058-474-8
Bosch Automotive Handbook
It details EVERY product Bosch GmBH have made for the automotive industry, generally starting with basic theory then applying it to BOSCH systems, it includes all versions on Motronic too. It also partly helped me get the job i have, and i try to never be more than 10 minutes away from a copy. Sod Wiki, get the Bosch Blue book - oh and have a laugh at the list of authors, its like a list of all the professors in Germany!
ISBN 1-86058-474-8
Bosch Automotive Handbook
It details EVERY product Bosch GmBH have made for the automotive industry, generally starting with basic theory then applying it to BOSCH systems, it includes all versions on Motronic too. It also partly helped me get the job i have, and i try to never be more than 10 minutes away from a copy. Sod Wiki, get the Bosch Blue book - oh and have a laugh at the list of authors, its like a list of all the professors in Germany!
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Re: Injection
Because it's injected before the inlet valve, the fuel is not wasted because it lingers until the valve opens at the appropriate time. The "right amount" of fuel is therefore calculated over the 4 strokes. The spray pattern and duty cycle from the injectors is also varied by the ECU dependant on your driving conditions, speed/demand etc.Bx Bandit wrote: How the fuck does the engine get the right amount of fuel in the right cylinder at the right time and what happens to the fuel not used? I thought I knew this when I read up on injection when I got the valver, but now it makes less sense than I remember!
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Re: Injection
Where does it 'linger' then? Surely, the idea of injection is to inject an atomised quantity of fuel hence the pressure bar etc. But I would expect it to 'splurge' in if it has to linger about somewhere!
Vanny, does that blue book detail any diesel (i.e. Boch VE pump) stuff me old teapot?
Vanny, does that blue book detail any diesel (i.e. Boch VE pump) stuff me old teapot?
....There he goes, one of God's own prototypes, a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production......too weird too live.....and too rare to die